I've been pondering some deep stuff recently, but haven't had any idea how to even begin this discussion with you, my dear Bloggy Friends. However, I read a beautiful post on another blog today, which seemed to be the perfect introduction for the topics that I have been pondering.
Just A Family is one of the blogs that I often read. I am blessed by this mama's words, example, quiet & gentle spirit, and love for her children. I hope you will be blessed, and challenged, by her thoughts today:
Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law
he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by
streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and
whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers.
Psalm 1
....
The verse on my bulletin board is what I'm desperately trying to teach my children.
Meditate on God's law.
Go for counsel when you're in doubt about something.
Even when you're not in doubt go and seek it out.
Even when you're not in doubt go and seek it out.
Get them used to asking, "Dad, do you think I should do this?"
Good counsel is always a gift from God, it's not always what
you want to hear but it's a protection from the Lord.
you want to hear but it's a protection from the Lord.
So many times kids are not taught to seek out counsel.
Just do what you think or what you feel.
Just do what you think or what you feel.
Our hearts can't be trusted and when you learn
to always run to counsel it will save lots of heart ache. Part of the heart ache
I'm trying to protect my children from is the heart ache of a prideful spirit.
The spirit of I'm right your wrong. When you're married this is not a quality that is
appreciated. So going to someone and saying,
"this is what I think, but I want your advice" can protect you from
the dangers of prideful thinking.
a haughty know it all is really hard to be around..sigh, I've been guilty.
Get your daughter used to asking her dad if he likes
what she has on.
Teach your son to always go to dad before
he does anything...I will ask Cooper, my eight
year old, did you get counsel before you did that?
Use the word counsel and tell them what it means.
Read stories about people or couples who went for counsel.
It starts early and remind them often.
Remind yourself often.
Don't do anything without first saying,
"I'll ask my husband and get back with you."
Counsel is a beautiful thing.
"this is what I think, but I want your advice" can protect you from
the dangers of prideful thinking.
a haughty know it all is really hard to be around..sigh, I've been guilty.
Get your daughter used to asking her dad if he likes
what she has on.
Teach your son to always go to dad before
he does anything...I will ask Cooper, my eight
year old, did you get counsel before you did that?
Use the word counsel and tell them what it means.
Read stories about people or couples who went for counsel.
It starts early and remind them often.
Remind yourself often.
Don't do anything without first saying,
"I'll ask my husband and get back with you."
Counsel is a beautiful thing.
I'd love to hear your thoughts ...
If you are single and still living in your parents' home, is this something that you practice? Is this something that your parents taught you?
If you are single and living outside of your parents' home, is this something that you practice? If so, who do you seek godly counsel from?
If you are married, is this something that you have discussed with your spouse? Is this something that you practice? Who do you seek godly counsel from?
If you are a parent, is this something that you teach your children?
well I'm 27 and still living at home...our dynamics are a bit different...we are a mom and daughter who were alone as a set for 21 yrs..until we adopted my sister. (and why would I move out now after yearning for her for so long!! I'm staying put to enjoy her as long as I can..she's 7.5 now) We are relatively close, and I go ask her about most things. Because we are so close it wasn't really taught specifically, but a learned behavior!
ReplyDeleteInteresting topic. I'll start by telling you that my flavor of Christianity is a bit different from yours... I'm a mainline Protestant... grew up Presbyterian, am now an ELCA Lutheran. So my perspective is a bit different.
ReplyDeleteAnyway... my gut reaction to this is negative, and I was trying to figure out why that was. I think there are two reasons for it, one is a good one and one not so much. The less good reason is pride... I want to be free to make up my own mind on issues, and not feel like I'm bound to keep going to my parents or whoever now (btw, I'm in my 40's and my mother still likes to give unsolicited advice, so I have a strong negative reaction to that ;-)). But I remember so vividly being 18, 19, 20, and wanting to show that I could do things for myself.
My other reason for not agreeing with this is, I think, a good one: I want my kids to be able to think and reason for themselves. If we teach our kids to always seek advice before any action, we set them up to not be able to make up their own minds on important issues. Our jobs as parents are to give our kids roots and wings... if they have good roots, they won't need to come to us for every decision, and if we force them to do so when they are younger they won't develop their wings properly.
From a Christian perspective, one of the main differences between Catholics and Protestants when the Protestants initially broke away was the idea of confession... that everything needed to go through a Priest or a 'middle man' if you will. Protestants threw that idea out and said it was fine to take it straight to God :-).
Now... that said... I think there are some merits to her idea. Maybe taking it down a notch and modeling the idea of talking over your major issues with a trusted, wise older friend, counselor, or pastor is a good compromise. But having your teen daughter ask her dad every day whether he approves of her outfit seems like a good way to make your teen daughter either rebel at the intrusion or turn into someone really passive.
Hi Anita,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for sharing your thoughts, even though you thought that we would disagree. Stay tuned, because I think you'll see that we have quite a few common ideas about this topic.
I also think it interesting that you consider us to have a "different flavor" of Christianity. (Love how you worded that.) I grew up Methodist ... attended a Lutheran church in high school ... was married in a Presbyterian church. We now attend an inter-denominational church, but I don't think we're flavored that differently. Our church must be Fruit Punch, with a little bit of a lot of different flavors. :)
While, as I said, I am blessed by this blog mama and appreciate her posts ... I did not say that I fully agree with her. Because I have been pondering some of the exact things that you mentioned, I thought this blog post would be a good jumping off point into the topic, and I'm excited to discuss some of your thoughts in future posts.
I really appreciated what you said about the differences between Catholic and Protestant. (My husband was raised Catholic.) While I hadn't yet thought of that analogy, I had definitely been contemplating the "why do we need a middle man?" idea.
Again, I am so glad that you felt comfortable sharing your thoughts, even though you assumed that we disagreed. I hope that my blog can be a place that we can all respectfully discuss issues, even when we don't hold the same convictions.
Be BLESSED!
Laurel
Nadia ... thanks so much for sharing your story. I think it is wonderful that you are still living at home with your mom and younger sister. Our young adult children have all been yo-yos ... sometimes here, sometimes not. But, we LOVE it when they come home to live, even if just for a short time.
ReplyDelete:) :) :)
In my early 20s, I didn't appreciate the gift of godly counsel from those older and wiser than myself. I thought I knew all the answers and that my way was best. I was an adult and, by golly, I was smart enough to make my own decisions.
ReplyDeleteI was wrong. Obviously.
These days, I so appreciate being able to go to Christian mentors for advice and wisdom.
YES, it is important that I learn to follow God alone. YES, I have the ability to hear God's guidance without a "middle man" YES, I must obey Him above all others.
BUT, sometimes God speaks through the words of someone who is a bit farther along in life. Someone who has walked the road of faith. Someone who will encourage me to take "leaps of faith" while at the same time asking questions that I may not have thought of and lovingly cautioning me when they are concerned.
It's not that a counseling-friend tells me what to do. But, they ask questions, encourage me, pray for me, and point out dangers I may not have seen on my own. They can see flaws in my character that I am blind to; they may have walked a similar road and have the wisdom of experience that I lack. They don't lecture me, they point out things for me to think/ pray about.
I think there's a BIG difference between "counseling" and "controlling". Counseling means sharing your heart and wisdom; controlling means telling someone what to do and demanding obedience. Counsel is rooted in love and humility; control is rooted in arrogance and insecurity.
God instructs us to listen to wise counsel. He does not instruct us to submit to the control of another.
{sorry this is so long... apparently I had more of an opinion on this topic than I thought...}
Thanks Vicky ... I really appreciate your point that ..
ReplyDelete"Counsel is rooted in love and humility; (while) control is rooted in arrogance and insecurity."
Be BLESSED!
Mama D.
I think Vicky and Anita have given some good thoughts on this topic. I also am a follower of the aforementioned blog and after I read it had kind of the same thoughts you did, so I'm glad for the opportunity to explore it a bit more.
ReplyDeleteGodly counsel is essential and so often young people are told to be their own person and do their own thing which often leads to their own BIG messes to clean up afterwards. However, we also do need to be the ones to make the decisions. Godly counsel helps us make the RIGHT decisions, but we still must be the ones to make the decision.
I have had godly people, whom I have the utmost respect for, counsel me not to adopt! I listen to them respectfully (most of the time), but I also must answer the calling God has put in my heart. I must obey God rather than men.
I guess my bottom line is this: God has never asked us to blindly obey any person. Counsel, then, is something to prayerfully sift through and measure against what God's plan and will for us is. (This only applies to things that are not specifically spelled out in the Bible.)
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this. I'm new to this blog, but definitely have been blessed so far! :)
Mama Margie ... thanks so much for jumping into the conversation.
ReplyDeleteIf we had listened to all of the "Godly Counsel" that we have been given (and acted on the "godly advice") then ...
... we would have stopped having children after 2 or 3
... we would not have homeschooled our children the past 20 years
... dear Papa would not have been a school teacher (because our "wise friends" told us that he could never support a large family on a teacher's salary)
... dear Papa would have never become a pastor
... we certainly wouldn't have adopted any children, after "foolishly" having so many bio. children
I could go on and on ...
Papa and I have always sought godly counsel ... and we have often acted upon the advice given ... but first and foremost we have sought the Lord, and asked for the Holy Spirit to impart His wisdom into our hearts.
God called us to have an extra large family ( no matter how many naysayers spoke into our lives).
God called Papa to be a school teacher for 21 years (even if his salary couldn't fully support a large family ... he painted houses to make up the difference)
God called Papa to leave teaching ... to drop his salary in half ... and to serve the Lord through full-time ministry ... even if we didn't know how God would provide for our needs.
God called us to adopt our Ghanaian Beauties, even though we already had a house full with 10 bio. children.
While it is wise to seek counsel ... and God can and does speak through godly mentors ... He also can speak to us, His sons and daughters.
:) :) :)
So true!
ReplyDeleteInteresting post and comments. I am not a parent yet. But I like the idea of helping children to understand the value of getting advice and counsel and input from others.
ReplyDeleteWhat I felt was missing from the thought-provoking post you shared, was any concept of modelling taking counsel from others.
In the last 10 years or so, I have increasingly sought out mentors and people I can trust to speak truth. I have also love to learn from those around me. I would like my children to to see me doing that. Being willing to learn as well as weighing up what I hear and making decisions well.
I would also like to model the attitude that we can all learn from one another. Perhaps by asking my children for their opinions, as well as suggesting that they should seek parental guidance. God speaks through children as well as adults, if we're listening (and probably even if we're not...!)